My initial post

Gutierrez is USA born and raised and as far as I know has never lived outside USA. He spent some high school years in Puerto Rico, which, of course, is part of the USA. Curiously, I have spent a number of years living and working (volunteer charity) in Central America so that I likely have better credentials, so to speak, than he does in this regard. We both learned Spanish as a second language. What always impresses me about the angry progressive mindset is the underlying belief that Hispanics are too incompetent, incapable, and stupid to improve their own countries, hence abandoning their native lands and coming to the USA is their only option; essentially a racist perspective. Never does the idea cross his mind that the true solution is to be found in the betterment of their own countries.

Julieplsekbrown first reply

How can you be so blind? Do you think any of this would be happening if Trump didn't talk the way he does? He started off his campaign stating that Mexicans were rapists. I'll never forget that moment in my life. And he has just doubled-down, tripled-down on his talk that anyone from central America is a dangerous criminal. But what is worst than Trump is how his base cheers this on. It was the cheering crowd after Trump made those statements that has bothered me the most. I have never felt so negative towards fellow Americans until I heard that. And it just keeps getting worse.

My second post

Thanks for your reply to my comment. While I often dread the words that might come from Trump's mouth (or smartphone), the inappropriate sentiments to which you referred are unrelated to the point that I am making. I might mention that a common progressive rationale in support of immigration to the US is that their native countries are filled with crime and violence, which ironically lends support to Trump's words.

Julieplsekbrown

How can you say it is unrelated? Because those words aren't directed to people who look like you?

Me

Again, my point is that simply fleeing one's country does not solve the fundamental problems, but rather addressing the concerns within the country and culture is ultimately the solution. By this I don't mean throwing foreign aid money at corrupt politicians, but actions and not just words by people who claim to be so concerned and compassionate. For example, presently we (my wife and I) are putting a young man through university (engineering) in Honduras with the clearly stated intent that he is not to graduate and use his education as a means to come to the US, but rather for the betterment of his community and country. Curiously, through the magic and miracles of genetics, there are blond-haired white skinned people who live in Honduras and specifically our little village. I also have a fair amount of Africa time and I'm disinclined to the "people who look like you" way of thinking.

Julieplsekbrown (kind of a tangential comment)

Obama was tough on immigration. No one gave him hell. Why? He didn't talk about them like they were vermin we needed to exterminate. We can never have a productive debate or action on immigration with Trump. Its just too obvious his motives are racist. I would never support anything he puts forth. Do you think we would be having this conversation had you all elected someone reasonable like Kasich instead of Trump? He knows better than to talk like that. The repercussions are just too great to talk like that as an elected leader.

Julieplsekbrown (the italics are mine, and what she says pretty well speaks for itself; her statement in the following paragraph regarding burning flags is a little thoughtful, but she becomes overly dramatic, a ubiquitous progressive trait, at the end)

We cannot have a real discussion on immigration until Trump is out of office. You might sound reasonable, but if you support Trump, you are supporting a white nationalist agenda. You're just not getting it. Half my family is black. The way Trump talks has me scared for the future of my family. It makes me scared for anyone who may look like they are mexicans. You just don't understand as you are not a target.

I guess its kind of like how when we see burning of the American flag and 'death to america' chants. When I hear that kind of rhetoric and here crowds cheering wildly? No reasonable conversation can occur after that. Its chilling. It makes me feel like America is not a safe place to raise children.

Me (Julieplsekbrown did not further respond)

Sitting next to me in my living room at this very moment is a very dark-skinned young man from Kenya who I first knew in 2002-2003 as a volunteer medical director at a remotely located clinic.  We brought him over here just last week on a non-immigrant F1 student visa in order to attend college, again with the firm idea he will return to Kenya to use his education to benefit his family and community.  Personally I think the left uses their hatred for Trump as an excuse to do nothing other than feel outraged, as if being outraged is sufficient.  You say if I support Trump I am therefore a “white nationalist.”  What does it mean to support Trump?  Not hate him?  Personally I have mixed feelings about him, but I admit I don’t HATE him.  It’s funny, my wife and I have spent significant time, effort, and money to help improve the lives and opportunities for “people of color,” but progressives who do nothing but express anger would call us racists?  What hypocrisy!